Papers Please: Arrested At Circuit City (540)
Today was an eventful day. I drove to Cleveland, reunited with my father’s side of the family and got arrested. More on that arrested part to come.
For the labor day weekend my father decided to host a small family reunion. My sister flew in from California and I drove in from Pittsburgh to visit my father, his wife and my little brother and sister. Shortly after arriving we packed the whole family into my father’s Buick and headed off to the grocery store to buy some ingredients to make monkeybread. (It’s my little sister’s birthday today and that was her cute/bizare birthday request.)
Next to the grocery store was a Circuit City. (The Brooklyn, Ohio Circuit City to be exact.) Having forgotten that it was my sister’s birthday I decided to run in and buy her a last minute gift. I settled on Disney’s “Cars” game for the Nintendo Wii. I also needed to purchase a Power Squid surge protector which I paid for separately with my business credit card. As I headed towards the exit doors I passed a gentleman whose name I would later learn is Santura. As I began to walk towards the doors Santura said, “Sir, I need to examine your receipt.” I responded by continuing to walk past him while saying, “No thank you.”
As I walked through the double doors I heard Santura yelling for his manager behind me. My father and the family had the Buick pulled up waiting for me outside the doors to Circuit City. I opened the door and got into the back seat while Santura and his manager, whose name I have since learned is Joe Atha, came running up to the vehicle. I closed the door and as my father was just about to pull away the manager, Joe, yelled for us to stop. Of course I knew what this was about, but I played dumb and pretended that I didn’t know what the problem was. I wanted to give Joe the chance to explain what all the fuss was for.
I reopened the door to talk with Joe and at this point Joe positioned his body between the open car door and myself. (I was still seated in the Buick.) Joe placed his left hand on the roof of the car and his right hand on the open car door. I asked Joe if there was a problem. The conversation went something like this:
Me: “Is there a problem?”
Joe: “I need to examine your bag and receipt before letting you leave this parking lot.”
Me: “I paid for the contents in this bag. Are you accusing me of stealing?”
Joe: “I’m not accusing you of anything, but I’m allowed by law to look through your bag when you leave.”
Me: “Which law states that? Name the law that gives you the right to examine my bag when I leave a Circuit City.”
Of course Joe wasn’t able to name the law that gives him, a U.S. citizen and Circuit City employee the right to examine anything that I, a U.S. citizen and Circuit City customer am carrying out of the store. I’ve dealt with these scare tactics at other stores in the past including other Circuit Cities, Best Buys and Guitar Centers. I’ve always taken the stance that retail stores shouldn’t treat their loyal customers as criminals and that customers shouldn’t so willingly give up their rights along with their money. Theft sucks and I wish that shoplifters were treated more harshly than they are, but the fact is that I am not a shiplifter shoplifter and shouldn’t have to forfeit my civil rights when leaving a store.
I twice asked Joe to back away from the car so that I could close the door. Joe refused. On three occasions I tried to pull the door closed but Joe pushed back on the door with his hip and hands. I then gave Joe three options:
- “Accuse me of shoplifting and call the police. I will gladly wait for them to arrive.”
- “Back away from the car so that I can close the door and drive away.”
- “If you refuse to let me leave I will be forced to call the police.”
Joe didn’t budge. At this point I pushed my way past Joe and walked onto the sidewalk next to the building. I pulled out my phone and dialed 911.
Two minutes later Brooklyn, Ohio police officer Ernie Arroyo arrived on the scene. As I began to explain the story leading up to Joe Atha preventing my egress from the parking lot, officer Arroyo began to question why I refused to show my receipt in the first place. I explained that I lawfully purchased the contents in the bag and didn’t feel that it was necessary for me to let a Circuit City employee inspect the bag as I left. Officer Arroyo disagreed. He claimed that stores have the right to inspect all receipts and all bags upon leaving their store.
At this point Officer Arroyo asked to see my receipt and driver’s license. I handed over the receipt, and stated that my name is Michael Righi. Again, Officer Arroyo asked to see my driver’s license. The conversation went something like this:
Me: “I’m required by law to state that my name is Michael Righi, but I do not have to provide you with my driver’s license since I am not operating a vehicle.”
Officer Arroyo: “Give me your driver’s license or I will place you under arrest.”
Me: “My name is Michael Righi. I am not willing to provide you with my driver’s license.”
Officer Arroyo: “Turn around and up against the wall.”
At this point I was placed in handcuffs, patted down, had my wallet removed from my back pocket and was placed in the back of Officer Arroyo’s police car. My three siblings sat in the back of the Buick crying their eyes out, which is the only part of today that I regret. I wish my little brother and sisters didn’t have to watch this, but I knew exactly what I was doing and was very careful with my words. Other than putting my family through a little scare I don’t regret anything that happened today.
Officer Arroyo ran my father’s license plate, my driver’s license and inspected my two receipts along with the contents of my bag. He also handed over my Circuit City bag to Joe Atha and allowed him to ensure that in fact I stole nothing from the store.
While being driven down to the station in the back of the police car I struck up a conversation with Officer Arroyo. I asked him if he was surprised that my receipts matched the contents in the bag and in a surprise moment of honesty he admitted that he was. I then asked Officer Arroyo what charges were going to be brought against me. He explained that I had been arrested for failure to produce my driver’s license. I asked him what would happen if I never learned to drive and didn’t have a driver’s license. After all, at the time that he arrested me I was standing on a sidewalk outside a Circuit City. I wasn’t driving a car, and even when I was seated in the Buick I was a back seat passenger. The officer never gave me a satisfactory answer to this question, but promised to explain the law to me after I was booked.
This morning I slept through my alarm clock and was in a hurry to drive to Cleveland. I didn’t have time to iron my shirt, and this is what I regretted while my mugshot was being taken. Listen up kids. Always press your clothes because you never know when you’ll be unlawfully arrested.
Shortly after being booked, fingerprints and all, Officer Arroyo presented me with my charges:
ORD:525.07: Obstructing Official Business (M-2)
(a) No person, without privilege to do so and with purpose to prevent, obstruct or delay the performance by a public official of any authorized act within the public official’s offical capacity shall do any act that hampers or impedes a public official in the performance of the public official’s lawful duties.
Not being able to find the law in the books that states that a citizen must provide a driver’s license while walking through a parking lot, Officer Arroyo had to settle for “obstructing official business.” Keep in mind that the official business that I was supposedly obstructing was business that I initiated by calling the police. I called for help and I got arrested.
My father posted the $300 bail that was needed to get me out of jail and back on my way to Park Avenue Place. (Sorry for the lame Monopoly joke, but it’s my first time being arrested. Cut me some humor slack.) After being released I stuck around the police station for a little while to fill out the necessary paper work to press charges against the Circuit City manager who physically prevented me from leaving the parking lot. I’m most interested in seeing my charges dropped for refusing to present identification, but I view that as a completely separate issue from the store manager interfering with my egress.
I understand that my day would have gone a lot smoother if I had agreed to let loss prevention inspect my bag. I understand that my day would have gone a lot smoother if I had agreed to hand over my driver’s license when asked by Officer Arroyo. However, I am not interested in living my life smoothly. I am interested in living my life on strong principles and standing up for my rights as a consumer, a U.S. citizen and a human being. Allowing stores to inspect our bags at will might seem like a trivial matter, but it creates an atmosphere of obedience which is a dangerous thing. Allowing police officers to see our papers at will might seem like a trivial matter, but it creates a fear-of-authority atmosphere which can be all too easily abused.
I can reluctantly understand having to show a permit to fish, a permit to drive and a permit to carry a weapon. Having to show a permit to exist is a scary idea which I got a strong taste of today.
My hearing is scheduled for September 20th, 2007. I will be contacting the ACLU and the IDP on Tuesday (the next business day), and I plan to fight these charges no matter what it takes. I will provide updates on this page as events unfold.
September 1st, 2007 @ 10:50PM EST Update:The police officer never read me my Miranda rights. I’ve heard differing opinions on how much this really matters and will certainly be bringing this up with my attorney.
September 1st, 2007 @11:34PM EST Update:I found the detail on Ohio’s “stop and identify” law. I encourage you to read it in its entirety, but I will spell out the important part:
2921.29 (C) Nothing in this section requires a person to answer any questions beyond that person’s name, address, or date of birth. Nothing in this section authorizes a law enforcement officer to arrest a person for not providing any information beyond that person’s name, address, or date of birth or for refusing to describe the offense observed.
I stated my name to the police officer, and if he had asked me for my address and date of birth I would have provided that as well. The officer specifically asked for my driver’s license and this is what I was unwilling to provide. If I’m reading this correctly it would appear that Ohio’s law specifically protects citizens from having to hand over driver’s licenses unless they are operating a motor vehicle. This is what I always believed, but it’s nice to see it in writing.
September 2nd, 2007 @10:01AM EST Update: I was speaking to my father this morning about what unfolded yesterday, and he told me something that I was not aware of until this point. While I was speaking to Joe Atha from the back seat of the car, Santura stood in front of my father’s vehicle with his hands out to the side as a way of preventing him from driving forward. My father would not have been able to drive forward because Santura stood in the way, and he would not have been able to drive backwards because the open door would have hit Joe who was leaning into the car.
September 2nd, 2007 @ 5:05PM EST Update:Thank you for those of you who have submitted donations to help me fight these charges. I have been overwhelmed with the response that this story has received in the past twelve hours. A few people contacted me wanting more information about the case. Here are some answers to your questions:
Q: Which police department arrested you?
A: I was a arrested by a police officer working for the City of Brooklyn, Ohio located at 7619 Memphis Avenue Brooklyn, Ohio 44144. This is in Cuyahoga County.
Q: What is your case number?
A: I don’t know if my case number is the same thing as my ticket number, but the officer gave me a summons with the following across the top: “Ticket Number: A10514″
Q: Did you get Officer Ernie Arroyo’s badge number?
A: Yes, his badge number is #49. His surpervisor is Sgt. Knapp, whose badge number is #36.
Q: Should I be boycotting Circuit City?
A: At this time I am not recommending a boycott of Circuit City because Circuit City has yet to respond to my complaint. I want to give them a chance to respond to this incident before determining whether or not it makes sense for me to endorse a boycott.
Q: Should I be contacting the Brooklyn, Ohio Police Department?
A: Thank you for expressing an interest in taking this matter up personally, and thank you to those of you who already contacted the Brooklyn, Ohio police department. However, I urge you to please not tie up their emergency services with complaints. If you would like to voice a complaint I think it would be more appropriate to do so with the mayor or city council. Their contact information is available at the Brooklyn, Ohio City Government web site.
Q: What is the best way to reach you?
A: I can be reached by email at michael dot righi at field expert dot com.
September 4th, 2007 @ 2:53PM EST Update:Thank you to everybody who left a comment on this page. My web server has been taking a beating from all the traffic and I’m afraid I had to turn commenting off in order to keep the site alive. If you would like to read the comments that people left you can do so here.
If you would like to keep the discussion going I urge you to do so on one of the following message boards:
September 5th, 2007 @ 7:08PM EST Update:Additional updates to this story will appears as new entries at http://www.michaelrighi.com/.
I’ve always understood that your driver’s license is not actually “yours,” but is the property of the state in which it is issued. I think that you are required to surrender it if asked by a police officer or other authorized agent of the state. I could be wrong about that. The law you’re citing, though, is worded in such a way that it prevents an officer from arresting you for refusing to answer questions or provide information (an extension of your Fifth Amendment rights, as enunciated in the Miranda decision). However, I don’t think that refusing to hand over your driver’s license can be considered “answer(ing) any questions beyond (your) name, address or date of birth,” or, “not providing any information…etc.”
Still, those Circuit City people were real assholes.
I would certainly discuss with your lawyer the possibility of filing suit against Officer Arroyo, the police department, and the City (or State, I didn’t see if you mentioned which the officer was with) for unlawful arrest and anything else you might be able to press against them. Push for the maximum relief allowed by State law.
My father was unlawfully arrested some years ago - on his own property - on the charge of criminal tresspass. Our lawyer bailed on us, leaving us without any opportunity to continue with the suit. I only hope that your lawyer isn’t so fickle - you deserve restitution for the crime that Arroyo committed against you. Officers of the law need to be held accountable to the very laws they are sworn to uphold. Don’t let him get away with this.
I teach Social studies, and this is something I know I will use in the classroom. Glad to see someone who is aware of our natural rights.
Well, I guess since you want to make it harder and harder for stores to prevent shoplifting, the only alternative is for stores to raise prices to cover the cost of shoplifted goods.
Thanks!
Hey there…just wanted to say thanks for taking one for the team, and cheers to you for having balls when most of us (many times myself included) just relent and let stores treat us with this guilty until proven innocent mentality. Best of luck.
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You are wrong Jesse. How did the officer even know he had a license. Most people in the big Brooklyn, NYC, do not have a license. The charges will surely be dropped and record expunged. I am curious to see what happens against Circuit City. Nothing I imagine, but he will have a case in civil court since he ended up being arrested.
Recently I have been asked to open my bag by a police officer while boarding a train (in the UK). A few years ago I would have thought this illegal without providing grounds, but with all these anti terror laws now I have no idea. Perhaps I should have refused to submit, but I just don’t have the time for such hassles!
Good luck with your hearing.
Kudos to you. You’ve done what I’ve thought about doing every time I’ve stood in line to have my receipt glanced at and marked with a highlighter. It is no wonder that I do most of my shopping online. The question I have now is that now stores know they can get away with examining rightfully purchased property, (as though shoplifters haven’t already figured out not to hide their ill gotten goods in the shopping bag) is there any way to repeal this trend? It seems like, at least lately, alterations in civil rights go one way and one way only - they are diminishing.
I’m not going to candy coat this. You are am idiot. You’re on PRIVATE PROPERTY in a store which sells lots of expensive stuff. They didn’t demand a strip search, they wanted to SEE YOUR RECEIPT AND LOOK IN YOUR BAG.
But it gets BETTER! You’ve got to go an get uppity with a cop! YOU MORON! You called 911 (which is for EMERGENCIES ONLY you tool!) and then got snippy with the cop who has better things to do than listen to some whiny tool with a chip on his shoulder complain about how the security guard treated him!
The thing is, it doesn’t MATTER IF YOU’RE RIGHT. You wasted taxpayer dollars with your little crusade here, idiot. Now you’re going to have a criminal record (because I guarantee you the judge won’t be sympathetic) and you’ll STILL have Circuit City employees asking for your receipt.
Awesome. Sue them for false arrest!
Seriously. Not only is standing up for your rights fun and exciting (makes for a good story) but it’s also profitable!
http://feedblog.org/2007/08/17/protest-the-war-and-make-80k-in-cash/
and Rob, except for Costco (which you agree to when you become a member), I have never been in a store that checks receipts and that includes stores in NYC. So the idea that they have to raise prices is nonsense. Why this one Circuit City pulls this crap is beyond me. But then given how well they run their business into the ground, no surprise.
It’s sad that things like this happen, but they’re bound to happen and it’s great to know that there’s at least one person out there who won’t just give up and let it slide.
The system is broken, not just the individuals, and it’s up to the citizens to show them who’s the real boss.
Required:
“I’m not going to candy coat this. You are am idiot. You’re on PRIVATE PROPERTY in a store which sells lots of expensive stuff. They didn’t demand a strip search, they wanted to SEE YOUR RECEIPT AND LOOK IN YOUR BAG.”
I totally agree with you. If you want to live in a totalitarian police state feel free to move to China. This is what they’re good at.
Until them please stop voting.
Kevin
Well I admire what you did initially but it’s going to be an expensive process both emotionally and financially to defend yourself like this. It’s far from over - if you feel screwed now, just wait until you are in front of a judge who doesn’t give a darn about “right and wrong” and fines you anyway and makes you pay court costs for “wasting his time”.
You’ll probably get hundreds of hours of community service too, you’ll be fuming by that point but there’s little you can do. I went through a similar process several years ago.
If you’ve never been hassled by cops and never had an experience like this before, it’s always an eye opening lesson to learn that basically law enforcement can find any reason at any given time to arrest you, regardless of the previous events that brought them to you. They will lie to your face and write down things that never happened or things that were never said. It’s your word against theirs and no judge will never, ever take your word over theirs.
In my case they read me the miranda rights AFTER they talked to me for 15 minutes and took me from my home in the middle of the night in my pyjamas! They trumpped up charges as a felony, then the DA reduced them to a misdomeaner and then were dropped months later but wow they messed up my life! There is an arrest record that any employer can now find and turn you down for, regardless what the outcome was. To this day I will never, ever call a cop, even if it was life-and-death. And essentially, that must be what they want.
Police probably have a unwritten policy to “teach you a lesson” about calling the police when it’s not life-and-death as they’d rather sit in a corner somewhere and talk to each other while making double-digits per hour - typically the only other friends cops have are other cops because they realize most people can’t stand their never-turn-it-off corrupt attitude. Law enforcement is an industry like any other and everyone slacks and wants to get paid while appearing to accomplish something.
IANAL (thank goodness) but the person that prevented you from leaving is probably bonded (at least they better be) for liability. In theory you could sue circuit city and try to settle out of court because if it goes to court you’ll never be able to afford the costs and they will drag it out for years. (I suspect you’ll never get ACLU to defend you - they only take up huge causes - another lesson to learn.)
Meanwhile, all you can try to do is get press attention and I guess being on Boing-Boing (and probably Digg at this point) is somewhat helpful to your cause. However it’s going to be hard to get momentum. I see stories like this every few months.
Rob:
Nice to hear you are willing to trade your rights for lower prices.
Keep it up and pretty soon you’ll only have the right to do as you’re told.
“I totally agree with you. If you want to live in a totalitarian police state feel free to move to China. This is what they’re good at.”
Kevin, I’m not sure what you mean here… My point is that Circuit City has a reasonable right to be able to take non-invasive steps to make sure someone isn’t walking out of the store with products he didn’t pay for. How the hell does that equate to demanding a totalitarian police state?
[…] ing to show a permit to exist is a scary idea which I got a strong taste of today.” Link Previously on Boing Boing: TigerDirect: check in any time you like, but no […]
I’m on your side about the whole bag search thing, but you’d have been better off approaching it as an illegal search rather than a battle over your receipt. Basically, have them take it from you. Walk off the property and get your car later if you want to.
Not giving your ID to a cop when they ask is dumb, though. It’s been ages since courts held that this is not an illegal search or anything. Just hand it over.
There are matters of principle that are worth fighting for. This one doesn’t seem like one of them. Having a security guard inspect bags and receipts on the way out of stores is hardly about creating an atmosphere of obedience — it is a quick, unobtrusive procedure that helps prevent theft and keep costs down. In large stores, if the security check system was not in place, anyone could walk out of the store with a bag filled with all the stolen goods they wanted.
In Israel, security guards check your bags for explosives on your way into any establishment. Would you protest this procedure because you and your family and friends know you are a law abiding citizen? Is it okay to prevent explosions by inspecting bags, but not okay to prevent theft by checking receipts?
[…] Filed under: Stupidity — AlienMind @ 11:54 pm
A story about a gentleman arrested for refusing to show his receipt at Circuit City. Most […]
So, to help prevent shoplifting, they actually wanted to see if your merchandise matched your receipt? Those unreasonable bastards!
C’mon, you were inside their store where they have a lot of compact and expensive merchandise. When I bought an I-Pod there I wasn’t allowed to hold it (I could hold the display model) until it was paid for, but I understand why. Because they have trouble with people darting out of the store with unpaid merchandise. And what you did gave them the appearance of something dishonest. And then you wasted the police officers time as well. Grow up!
Gees, can’t you find something a little more worthwhile to stand up for?
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judicial_District_Court_of_Nevada]Hiibel vs. Nevada[/url] may have some bearing on this.
We have several stores in Saskatchewan which check purchases and receipts as you exit. Best Buy is the biggest offender, so I boycott the joint. Some youngster is essentially accusing an old geezer like me of stealing when he searches your bag. As a former, long-term retail manager I can state two things: most merchandise theft is perped by employees and the rest is the result of having too few, inattentive employees spread around the store. I’ve spent 45 minutes in a Best Buy without hearing from a single employee.
I also dispute them checking bags, because they’re really checking the honesty of their staff … not you. Did young Bill give his friend three CDs for the price of one? Did Wanda slip an extra digital camera in her cousin’s purchases? If you were the one doing the stealing and didn’t have an in-store accomplice, would you put the ill-gotten loot in the most obvious place?
Mike, while I applaud your desire to stand up for your rights as an individual, your BIG mistake was calling 911, which is an emergency number.
Re-opening the car door was another mistake, which allowed the Circuit City manager to frame the social interaction in a way that would cause an unfortunate escalation of the matter on your part.
Driving off very slowly would have been more entertaining and probably less confrontational.
Firefighters and police officers that I know personally have limitless supplies of anecdotes regarding nonessential 911 calls.
Still, I have to say that 2 minute response time is pretty good for Ohio.
I ran across this interesting interpretation of Hiibel, the case that provided the federal standard for Stop & Identify laws:
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/crcl/vol40_1/calland.php
Things are even worse than they should be, but it’s good to know you didn’t need to provide your driver’s license, isn’t it?
Could you please quote for us the law that states the store doesn’t have the rights to look in your bag? It would make this a bit more interesting, not to mention give ammo to others interested in doing the same thing.
Required Said:
“Kevin, I’m not sure what you mean here… My point is that Circuit City has a reasonable right to be able to take non-invasive steps to make sure someone isn’t walking out of the store with products he didn’t pay for. How the hell does that equate to demanding a totalitarian police state?”
If you’re a paying customer and haven’t committed a crime you do NOT have to prove your innocence.
The best part is tha most of the time when checking reciepts, they don’t bother going through the bags to match up item for item.
Where I live, some supermarkets do this on the way out. I just hand the guy my receipt and keep walking unless I have something that needs it for warranty.
Thanks for taking one for the team. I agree with you wholeheartedly, and am sorry you had to go through all that crap to uphold your rights. Hopefully your jury agrees with you.
Ohio Revised Code 2935.041 Detention and arrest of shoplifters - detention of persons in library, museum, or archival institution:
“(E) The officer, agent, or employee of the library, museum, or archival institution, the merchant or employee or agent of a merchant, or the owner, lessee, employee, or agent of the facility acting under division (A) , (B), or (D) of this section shall not search the person detained, search or seize any property belonging to the person detained without the person’s consent, or use undue restraint upon the person detained.”
Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada also notes that during a Terry stop that only the name of a person in a stop-and-identify state is required for identification. Photo ID is not required.
If I were you I would strongly look into a civil lawsuit for false arrest (both the company and the police department).
I feel like a lot of people opposed to you are missing the your point; by the LAW, you were right. The problem is people of “authority” (frankly, an assistant manager at a Circuit City is on a crazy power trip if he actually considers himself authority) feel that they can make up laws to bully people. This has huge ramifications for the future rights of citizens. While it might not seem worth it to go to jail because you didn’t want to show your receipt it is about the larger idea of following laws and not letting people bully you against your rights. The laws are the laws, and the fact that cops can get around them (I was arrested for underage drinking and, even though I cooperated at all times, was NOT read my rights and was basically threatened to be beaten unconscious and was blamed for 9/11) is crap, and the people who are supposed to uphold the laws need to know them and to be held accountable for not following them. So, in the end, I am sorry our legal system failed another citizen WHO DID NOT BRAKE THE LAW. That is the issue people. Whether you think it is dumb to not play it easy and show your receipt or your license is irrelevant, cops are getting away with breaking the law. Good luck. Please keep posting about what happens.
Was this struggle worth the effort?
I don’t “fight the power” just for the idea of it anymore. I guess showing my receipt to an employee and my ID to a cop just gets me home faster, utilitarian-wise.
Okay, full disclosure = I used to assist in detaining suspected shoplifters and I saw there are triggers that alert the security team and if you did something that merited further surveillance and detention and then refuse to show a receipt (because you’re in the Rebel Alliance) the red meat of suspicion stimulates the security boys to put the bite on you.
Well, you showed ‘em!
“If you’re a paying customer and haven’t committed a crime you do NOT have to prove your innocence.”
Was he accused of a crime? Did I miss that part? I don’t remember the part where the guy at the door said, “Okay, we know you were up to something. Up against the wall for a pat down.”
HE ASKED TO SEE HIS RECEIPT. How you can equate that with totalitarianism is quite beyond me. Maybe I’m stupid. In fact, I know I am. But this is a real stumper here, a head-scratcher supreme. Please explain it to me, and be sure to use little words because I need all the help I can get here.
Here is a quote from Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada:
“As we understand it, the statute does not require a suspect to give the officer a driver’s license or any other document. Provided that the suspect either states his name or communicates it to the officer by other means—a choice, we assume, that the suspect may make—the statute is satisfied and no violation occurs.”
What a bunch of “good Germans” we have here, always willing to make excuses for whoever’s in authority!
As DP cited above, according to the LAW, the electronics store guy is not allowed to demand to search your stuff or prevent you from leaving the store.
So, it’s against the law, it’s insulting besides, but let them search your stuff anyway?
How rude of you. I’ve worked in customer service at retail stores for too long, and it’s people like you who at times keep the job interesting, but usually just make it worse. The job is hard enough getting paid crap money to have to keep vigilant watch for theft, it’s only worse when you’re hassled for it. The store has the right to ask you to show a receipt, and you have the right to not shop there again. I think the best thing to do, assuming you don’t want to just comply with the store’s rules, is to speak with a manager, return the products, and not shop there again. However I think you owe those associates an apology for your immature actions.
News flash: cops and Circuit City employess aren’t always the sharpest knives in the drawer… but this is just asinine. Taking a stand against the MAN at Circuit City? Maybe you’re trying to cast yourself as some freedom loving hero, bravely taking one for the rest of us out here in la-la land, but you really come across as just a run of the mill crank.
Sure there have been (and will continue to be) plenty of court battles regarding when and how and why cops can and can’t ask for id, but this is just stupid.
What’s next for you? Refusing to show your parking stub the next time you try to exit a garage? Denying the cashier a glance at your id when you buy beer? Oh the oppression! zOMG! 1984 iz real!!!!11
If you want to make a scene which could potentially result in unfounded arrest I’m sure there are plenty of MEANINGFUL opportunities for you to take a stand in your community which don’t stem from your banal consumerism. Why don’t you pick an issue and go barricade yourself in the office of a elected official with whom you’re in opposition with?
Please get a life and stop wasting the tax payer’s money on this idiotic crusade against clueless clerks and cops…
Do not listen to those who say “just go along” - I appreciate you fighting for your, and thus our, rights.
The asshole who asked for the receipt watched him walk from the checkout to the door. Sam’s club does this too. Where are you going to find something to steal in that 15-20′ walk? At least at Sam’s club the gentlepersons who ask for you receipt PRETEND to look at it. They hate their employers as much as we do. Google Ron Paul.
Must be a local thing… Circuit City in Portland, OR doesn’t check receipts. Neither does Best Buy. The only places I’ve encountered it up here are Fry’s Electronics and CompUSA.
Typically they ask “May I see your receipt?” and I answer “No.” and keep walking. It’s not a demand, it’s a request and I’m entitled to deny any request.
p.s. In Oregon there used to be a law “failing to cooperate with a police officer”, that has since been struck down as unconstitutional.
p.p.s. There are only 7 states where you are required to present ID on demand. IIRC Ohio is not one of them.
Required,
You just don’t get the law and you are, quite honestly, an idiot. The fact that it was “private property” changes nothing. Civil rights don’t disappear when you cross the threshold onto someone’s private property. If I invite you into my house can I then hold you there until you show me your ID or wallet or whatever condition I want? No.
The fact is once he purchased the items a LEGAL transaction occurred. The items become his and the money becomes property of the store. They have no right to search his bag just as he has no right to search their cash register.
Bad on the store for not knowing the law. Worse on the cop for not informing the store they were wrong and allowing the situation to escalate.
It makes me sad how quickly people will shuffle into line and do what they’re told just because a man with a name tag tells them so.
Good luck….
The store wasted a customer’s time, wasted the police’s time, and wasted the taxpayers’ money by breaking the law.
Required said:
“Kevin, I’m not sure what you mean here… My point is that Circuit City has a reasonable right to be able to take non-invasive steps to make sure someone isn’t walking out of the store with products he didn’t pay for. How the hell does that equate to demanding a totalitarian police state?:
No, they don’t have a “reasonable right” to be able to take non-invasive steps when those non-invasive steps infringe your privacy.
A store has two rights concerning you: They can deny you entrance, and they can ask you to leave. That’s about it. If you are STEALING, then they can try to detain you and call the police. If any store stops you from leaving based on a rule that allows them to look at and inspect your private property (remember, you bought it), that store is in the wrong.
Of course, most cops are not immediately familiar with the fourth amendment, nor are most citizens - I guess we can blame the education system or the entertainment industry for that. People assume cops can do whatever they want - hell, even THEY assume they can do whatever they want - and as long as people let them they will continue.
Do a little research - you will find that Michael acted completely appropriately and that the Circuit City manager and the Cop acted on assumptions, while Michael is the only one who knew what he was doing.
I do agree that this will probably turn into a big mess, the first judge won’t give a shit about the 4th amendment either, and if you want it to go anywhere you’ll need to appeal.
I hope you stick with it. We need to stand up for our rights even if it’s is hard.
By the way, I never show my receipt unless I’m at Costco or if it’s a cute girl asking (I won’t give up my rights for much, but definitely a pretty face). Even at Costco I first try to walk out the door without stopping.
Good Job!
I’m not impressed by the “you should just roll over and take it crowd.” Legally, you were right. The store screwed up. Unless they actually suspected you of shoplifting–and not just on general principles–they had no legal right to detain you.
Be sure to try and go the extra mile and get your arrest expunged based on actual innocence. It will cost you and be a hassle, but the officer clearly broke the law.
I totally agree with not giving in to these requests. You paid for the merchandise and that should be the end of it.
My reason for not doing this at that point in time is simply this: you’re there with your family, you’re going to have a great afternoon, everything’s going to be just fine. Now that experience is tainted and an important part of your family has been inconvenienced by this experience.
I don’t think that particular occasion was the right one to take a stand. If this happens a lot, you would have had ample opportunity to demonstrate good citizenship. As it stands now a good part of what would have been a great worry free weekend has now been shot. It would have been considerate of you to think of -all- of the family.
You only live n days. You never relive the same day. The moment has passed.
However, I do think you’re right and the action of the police officer shows that there is something dreadfully wrong in the United States when officials go off on power trips and invent laws for convenience-sake.
Now that you’re going to face the courts: defend your rights fiercely!
For all those who disagreed with you, consider those opinions noted.
I, however, am impressed with the idealism practiced in real life. The result of this will probably won’t end well for you, court costs at the very least. But I admire you holding on that the rule of law is supposed to benefit citizens first and foremost, and not just be a means of enforcing arbitrary and convenient behavior.
I haven’t, and probably will never, have the nerve to disrupt my life to uphold the law in the way you did. Thank you for doing it and know there are quite a few that think it was simply the right thing to do.
Shane, clearly you weren’t very good at your job in customer service as you’re misinformed about the law. The store has the right to ask for the receipt. They don’t have the right to demand it.
Stop treating customers like criminals… we all know the real reason for the receipt checks: to stop thieves who are working in collusion with cashiers, paying for one item but getting more for free. Maybe if they didn’t pay their employees “crap money” they wouldn’t have to distrust them.
[…] Add Ohio to the List of “Places Never to Go” Stuff like someone getting arrested at Circuit City for refusing to show their receipt make […]
I am heartbroken by the comments you have received.
Has no one read any history?
Does no one know what is going on in the world?
Just a quick note of support… No good deed goes unpunished in the short term, but maybe if enough people stand up for their rights, one day the conventional wisdom in America will turn, and on that day people who are happy to live without freedom and privacy for themselves will respect other people’s right to live free.
mrgoodbar, I know one should not feed the trolls, but why don’t the police stop wasting tax payer’s money on such idiotic activity? And circuit city too? It does appear to happen in such a way that the erosion of privacy and individual rights occurs slowly so you don’t catch on. Thankfully the law is still gives you a number of rights, but if you don’t use them, they will disappear.
This is basically a form of civil disobedience, except that it is only not obeying ad hoc laws, rather than real ones, so it’s not actually illegal.
In my book, you’re a hero. I wish everyone had the guts that you do.
Mr GoodBar(and others), Are you to say to me that someone LAWFULLY leaving a store, without ANYONE(much less a Security guard) actually witnessing a crime is subjected to a physical search of ones possessions is OK?
What you dont seem to understand this is one of the US basic RIGHTS. Freedom from Undue Search and Seizure.
He was ASKED to stop, and within his rights he refused and left the store.(HIS CHOICE)
He was Chased and ASKED to STOP. He Did(his CHOICE), well within his rights to do so.
He was blocked 3 TIMES from re-entering the Car. He gave FAIR warning(which he doesn’t have to do) and was detained(which I i believe is still called Kidnapping, NOT his CHOICE).
Regardless of what happened afterwards. No one at the store followed the rules which have been in place.
1: You must see the shoplifter approach your merchandise
2: You must see the shoplifter select your merchandise
3: You must see the shoplifter conceal, carry away or convert your merchandise
4: You must maintain continuous observation the shoplifter
5: You must see the shoplifter fail to pay for the merchandise
6: You must approach the shoplifter outside of the store
Not one of 6 rules had come to pass, so be default no one can stop him(or YOU) from leaving a store. This is what keeps people from just ACCUSING you of a crime.
Now, go and get some education of your rights.
Great job! As others have noted, the company’s request to search your property is just that: a request. Thanks for pushing back when they push too hard.
Welcome to your 15 minutes of fame. You get it without regard to your sister you were going to the store for in the first place or to the rest of you family you embarrassed with your tantrum.
Thank you!
I am a US citizen and lived the first 25 years of my life in the states. I went to do some overseas work and in the ten years that I have been living abroad I have had no desire to live in the USA.
When I do go back to visit family the thing that shocks me most is how willing everyone is to roll over for ANYONE in a position of “authority” be it the 18 year old girl at the register or an over-eager cop.
We get to a police state mostly through small steps, people!
I know what you have put yourself through (and will have to further endure) is tough, but I for one really appreciate it. I will be watching for updates.
As others have stated… thanks for taking one for the team. I too get upset when treated like a criminal when leaving a store. I too do not have the guts to stand up like you did. I applaud your actions. Good luck to you in the times ahead. Please continue to keep us updated. Consider bringing as much media attention to this as possible. When/if Circuit City realizes the negative press with this and the Peace-officer(s) realize they’ve misinterpreted the law, I would hope the judge is pressured to side with you. I also applaud (from what it sounds like in your re-telling the story) your non-confrontational and calm demeanor.
A thought exercise, if you will.
You go to the tech retailer of your choice, and purchase some relatively small items at tremendous cost.
After you have given the clerk your money (however you choose to do so) what do they do? The look at the receipt to ensure that the transaction is correct, and hand it to you. Maybe you check it, maybe you were watching it all get rung up, but at this point, you have the stuff you’ve paid for, you have the receipt. They are yours. The little plastic bag it all gets handed to you in is yours, too.
I will not dispute the right of the loss prevention worker to ask to see my receipt, look in my bag, backpack, inspect my colon or whatever other requests they want to make. I will, however, reserve the right to suggest that they take a flying leap, because the stuff I just bought is mine, and unless they suspect me of a crime, they can bugger off.
And the funny thing here is that that’s pretty much exactly what the law says.
Keep it up, and don’t let the man get you down.
[…] ing to show a permit to exist is a scary idea which I got a strong taste of today.” Link Previously on Boing Boing: TigerDirect: check in any time you like, but no […]
[…] ing to show a permit to exist is a scary idea which I got a strong taste of today.” Link Previously on Boing Boing: TigerDirect: check in any time you like, but no […]
i hope you can make a mint off of the police department and the store. It’s the only way to stop this sort of behavior.
I had a similar experience at a BJ’s wholesale club. I showed them my receipt because a NJ cop was standing next to the store person but refused to open my back pack. The cop got so angry that he started yelling at me and calling me names. i asked him if he would arrest me, he said no, i left and then he ran out after me shouting “Never come back!!!” It’s not easy to refuse unreasonable searches.
NYC libraries do this searching too, twice, when you enter and leave the library, always fun to walk past them and have them yelling at you to come back. They never do more than yell.
There are very real reasons why someone might not want this invasion of privacy. For example, imagine you are shopping at an in store pharmacy (Costco, K-mart, etc). You have a certain level of trust when discussing your prescription with the pharmacist that doesn’t apply to the flunky at the door.
Thank you, as others have said, for taking one for the team. I am another customer who is sick and tired of being treated like criminal.
I have decided that from now on, I’m going to bring my camcorder with me every time I shop at one of these stores. I will immediately start filming every encounter I have with these bag checkers, I will not allow them to search my bags, and I will not stop filming until the issue is resolved.
I encourage other customers to do the same
I’m so shocked by comments like ‘mr.goodbar’ and ‘Required’ that I’m starting to wonder if they’re part of a professional effort to undermine outrage about this affront. You’re clearly right: I wish I had your courage.
Damien:
They will most likely attempt to detain you on suspicion of stealing the camcorder
Don’t be outraged for Michael Righi. Be happy for him. He is going to make a lot of money after he sues Circuit City and the police department. Think of it as a public service. It will provide a much needed education to the police department on identification requirements (IAW Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court) and to Circuit City on what constitutes an unlawful search and unlawful detainment. The level of education will be directly proportional to the amount of money that he receives.
I have a feeling that that if the prosecutor is familiar with the Hiibel case (and he or she should be since it made national news and hit all of the major legal journals) then this case will be dropped immediately after the prosecutor yells a couple profanities about overzealous police officers.
Everyone is missing the point - it;s not about showing the receipt, it\’s about detaining the shopper. They can\’t do that without accusing you of shoplifting, and even then they can\’t restrain you. So unless the store is willing to accuse you, they can\’t stop you from walking out. Period. We wasn\’t accused, he didn\’t have to stop. Dad shoudl have just driven away and that would have been the end of it.
Maybe they were crying BECAUSE YOU WERE WASTING EVERYONES TIME!!!
Show your fucking receipt and stop being a douche.
“The police officer never read me my Miranda rights. I’ve heard differing opinions on how much this really matters and will certainly be bringing this up with my attorney.”
Your attorney will laugh at the little child playing lawyer.
The law is not a game for children like you to play.
I’d congratulate you, but you have only done the right and natural thing. Anyone who pretends to think otherwise is either cavil or a meretrix. You have no greater, more important nor more fundamental duty than to stand up for your natural rights in any circumstance.
The notion that you should feel hostaged by the presence of your family is particularly odious.
Doing right is an opportunity to be shared with one’s family, their ‘blood and iron’ should be (presumed to be) right behind you. Your rights are your sacred birthright, to fail to seek to defend them at every possible turn would be to shirk the maintenance of your inheritance, qualifying you
what a bunch of lemmings. “oh, just show the receipt.” that’s so not the point. once he left the store, the circuit city manager lost any rights he had whatsoever — he becomes a citzen detaining another one. you don’t have to listen to him. i would have simply driven away. i NEVER stop when stores (costco excepted since i signed an agreement) “require” me to show a receipt. i don’t steal and we used to be innocent until proven otherwise. don’t treat me like a criminal. this cop is a tool. u should press charges against him as well.
I don\’t know about local law, but wasn\’t using 911 for this an abuse of the emergency number? Here in the UK, it is taken very seriously (eg, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/bristol/somerset/3282735.stm)
I work in security, and I tell you, NO ONE knows the law. “Me” up there is absolutely wrong. Law is, and should be, a game everyone knows the rules to.
Educate yourself. Even if you disagree with Mr. Righi. Know what you are allowed and what not allowed to do.
Next time someone does this, I certainly suggest quoting the Ohio Revised Code. Quote “According to ORC 2921.29, I am not required by law to show my ID to you.” and when Security tries to treat you like a criminal (hey! real life copy-protection!) read off the other one quoted above. Heck, print them out and cary them with you, if you wish to make a stand.
As well, I think, but am not certain, in Ohio you have to sign a paper when Miranda’d. But it’s been so long, I am not sure.
And if you agree with the idea of invasive searches and “guilty before innocent”, then work to change the laws, because as of right now they aren’t in your favor.
“BECAUSE YOU WERE WASTING EVERYONES TIME!!!”
No they were wasting his time. So to save other people’s time he has to submit himself to an illegal detention, and when he expects the police to impartially assert his rights, he gets arrested?
No, what he did was brave and proper and its people like him that keep people like you free.
Calling 911 when someone is illegally detaining him is the proper thing to do.
Circuit City will be destroyed by this.
Thanks for doing the right thing. It’s a shame the law enforcement officers in your situation didn’t know the law. Please, don’t give up.
And, no, false arrest or detainment or possibly disorderly conduct (look up the ORC) warrants Mr. Righi’s usage of 911. If it was illegal or unwarranted, he’d have been cited for that.
It’s not like he called them because they skipped the ketchup on his burger. There was a dispute, and the cop was the mediator.
What’s with the “Stop wasting everybody’s time!” comments? Do you really think cops and loss prevention officers have anything better to be doing with their time? If they weren’t dealing with Mr. Righi they’d be dealing with some other useless shit that didn’t need to be done.
I congratulate you Michael not just for standing up for your rights, but for doing it in front of your family. “What,” you ask? While I don’t know anything about the political views of your family members, I can assure you that watching these powertripping jerkoffs abuse you can only help your family to become more aware of how much of a police state the USA is becoming. Maybe one of them will help do something about it someday, inspired by the scene they witnessed that day.
“don\’t know about local law, but wasn\’t using 911 for this an abuse of the emergency number?”
Yes. Definitely a non emergency brought on by a fucking douche bag that wanted to waste a lot of peoples time and taxpayer money on nothing.
Please for god sakes don’t also start thinking your some rosa parks like that other douche bag who did the same thing last week. You’re no MLK or Gandhi. You’re an annoying douchebag being saluted by DVD discount shoppers everywhere.
You’re a fool. why would anyone putthemselves through an arrest just to be able to go “nah, nah, nah, you’re wrong. I’m right” to the police? It’s assholes like you that make the world such a shit pit. I hope the judge just laughs at your dumb ass. It’s what you deserve. Hell, I hope he locks your dumb ass up for a few days.
“I work in security, and I tell you, NO ONE knows the law. “Me†up there is absolutely wrong. Law is, and should be, a game everyone knows the rules to.”
So… you’re a security guard at the local walmart? I’m doubting you’re anything above that because your too vapid to recognize what I said was an insult. I called the loser a child, and not that he shouldn’t know the law. If he is going to play the game he better know how to play it, in this case he didn’t.
He’s going to waste a lot of time and money on a something stupid. As a tax payer I hope they throw his ass in jail for a week or two.
While I think the reaction was a little bit excessive, too many people have no idea of the dangers that blind/passive obedience represents. Soon, we’ll get RFID chips implanted by force so they won’t need driver’s licenses anymore…
For the skeptics, just look up how Hitler set up his Nazi regime… It was not a coup; it was a slow but steady process of eroding people’s rights and intensify people’s fear…
So, you think all Americans should be willing at able to present their papers to authorities at whim? Not to Godwin the thread, but theres a reason people get worried about being obliged to present papers at any time…
“So, to help prevent shoplifting, they actually wanted to see if your merchandise matched your receipt? Those unreasonable bastards!”
Another moron in the crowd. Fuck, you guys are everywhere.
Security guards checking receipts are not about preventing shoplifters. They are about preventing theft from the cashiers and possibly collusion with you as you check out (running it past the anti-theft device but ‘forgetting’ to ring it up).
Congratulations, you now know at least one thing.
You need to provide your name, address and birth date.
ORD:525.07: Obstructing Official Business (M-2)
(a) No person, without privilege to do so and with purpose to prevent, obstruct or delay the performance by a public official of any authorized act within the public official’s official capacity shall do any act that hampers or impedes a public official in the performance of the public official’s lawful duties.
I can almost write out the transcript of the trial for you now…
Judge “What happened”
Cop: “I asked for his ID and he didn’t give it to me.”
Idiot: “I told him my name. I don’t have to give him my ID. What if I didn’t have one?”
Judge “I ask the questions here. Why didn’t you give your ID”
Idiot “I dont have to.”
Judge “You have to give your name, address, and birth date.”
Idiot “He didn’t ask for that”
Judge “He asked for your ID”
Idiot “Thats not the same thing”
Judge “Well since you know the law so well, then you should have also known that you are required to provide your name, address, and birthdate.”
Idiot “Uhhh”
Judge “Ignorance of the law does not excuse you. $150 fine and stop wasting our time.”
Judge:
Oh one more thing for this DOUCHE BAG IDIOT….
Did your lawyer review this blog posting first or did he/she say you should just go type it up and say whatever you thought was good to post. Especially include real names of the people, because thats always a good idea.
I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
Understand that the Bill of Rights only gives US citizens protection from the government. It doesn’t extend any special rights in private situations. This is why you can’t protest on private property and why you have no right to free speech when you enter your workplace. It’s also (partly) why you can be searched (think pre-9/11 here) for no real reason at airports.
I’m not sure the 4th amendment comes to play here, regardless. Because of that bit about *unreasonable* search and seizures. Neither Circuit City nor the police were making unreasonable requests on Michael.
The clerk was doing his job, and Michael’s behavior threw out a whole slew of red flags.
The cop probably had no idea who placed the 911 call. He gets to the scene and sees a private citizen in an altercation with a shop employee. Shop employees, for all their other faults, don’t usually detain or hassle people at random. So something has got to be up with the citizen.
My guess — and I’m neither copy nor lawyer — is that Michael was asked for ID to prove his identity (did you pay by credit card? Was there your name on the receipt?) and establish local residency. He also might have wanted to run a warrant check (because maybe you’ve been running shoplifting scams in Kentucky recently, and there are warrants out for your arrest there). And a driver’s license has become defacto ID for adults in America, which has little to nothing to do with whether you were driving a car.
Sure, you’re not required to produce “papers” — but as you found out, if you give the cops a headache, they’ll give you one right back.
If Michael has no previous record, the DA will most likely drop the charges. And Circuit City will not be “destroyed” by any lawsuit. Even if Michael can find a lawyer who will take this case (which I doubt), Circuit City has been enforcing this policy for *years* in their stores across the nation. So another offhand guess: I’m sure their army of lawyers has figured out a way to keep their liability to a minimum as a result of having this policy.
If you don’t like being treated “like a criminal” — and I agree Circuit City’s bag and receipt checking policy is awful — *stop shopping at their stores*.
‘Me,’ you need to look up Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada. The US Supreme Court clearly stated that if you state your name in a stop-and-identify state then no violation of statue occurs. It doesn’t matter how much you like or dislike this case, the law is on his side and the police department is going to lose bigtime.
542 U.S. 177. Read it and eat crow.
Why do people feel obliged to side with and protect the government (municipal, state, or federal)? People’s willingness to relinquish their rights is beyond me.
Thomas Jefferson put it eloquently: “When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
And for those who say, “Oh, you just made it harder on yourself, you should have just given up the receipt”, once the powers to be have cleared this level of intrusion into our civil liberties, they will be poised to encroach onto other civil liberties.
Kudos on standing up!
From the Netherlands, I applaud your stance on this, Michael!
On this side of the ocean (we’re the tiny country west of Germany, Amsterdam is our capital) we don’t have these bag-checking fools (yet), other then at the airports. Then again, I doubt they’d be effective here … Dutch people are too rude to cooperate with some 18y/o shop clerk
Keep on the good work, it’s inspiring to read that some people still *do* step up for their beliefs and don’t take the easy way, just to get out of stupid situations like this! Keep us posted on any progress.
Slightly off topic, but just to clear a point… In response to Euan’s comment (about being [stopped and] searched in the UK whilst boarding a train) this has been permitted in England since the Terrorism Act 2000 was passed.
Since then, an officer of the law is permitted to stop and search vehicles and their contents, and pedestrians and their possessions, etc - with pretty much no ‘real’ reason needed, just as a ‘routine check’.
At some (larger) railway stations they regularly perform random stop and searches of (for example) every 10th person with a rucksack, under Section 44(2) of the Terrorism Act 2000.
They don’t do this everyday, only on days where there is an (apparently) higher than normal security risk, and, notably, they don’t ask for any means of identification beyond verbally providing a name and address (which, whilst being captured on their paperwork was not confirmed/checked on their radio at the moment of stop/search).
(UK) Terrorism Act 2000
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2000/00011–f.htm
(UK) Terrorism Act 2000 Section 44
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2000/ukpga_20000011_en_5#pt5-pb2-l1g44
(Make your own decision as to whether ‘1984′ is coming closer to being a reality for some countries… one small step at a time)
Michael, I salute you! I’ve always wanted to walk right past those bag checkers, but never do because of the hassle. I’m glad you did and I’m glad you stood up for your rights when interacting with the police.
But this isn’t about the store at all. The big story here is your interaction with the police.
For the people here who think you should have just shown your bag to the manager and license to the officer: too many people today are willing to roll over and allow any invasion of their rights until they won’t have any rights left. It’s not about shoplifting, bag checking, or being a trouble-maker. It’s about knowing your rights and asserting them because if you don’t know and assert your rights, you’ll lose them. The only thing that keeps police power in check is citizens exercising and defending their rights. It is a game - the police want to be able to search anything and detain anyone so they can solve crimes. The 4th and 5th amendments were designed to keep police power in check. Yes, it may make a police officer’s job harder, but in the long wrong this wouldn’t be a free country if the police could use any methods they felt like to close cases.
I’m worried the judge in your case may not be as idealistic as she should be, but if she follows the law you’re sure to get off and hopefully following a civil suit, recoup some money from the police department for your trouble.
Good luck
Letting a retail store conduct business under their own SOP creates an atmosphere of obedience? You think THAT’S a dangerous thing? Why don’t you let them do their job and you can both get on with your lives. You’re not creating an “atmosphere of obediance,” you’re just letting them do their job. Seriously, get over yourself and your paranoias. Maybe once the Government implants all of us with RFID tags and monitors our every move throughout the course of a day- THAT is a dangerous thing. THAT is an atmosphere of obedience.
Checking bags is like walking passed the detectors in any grocery store, Walmart, or retail store. Do you perform a flying leap over the sensors every time you shop somewhere?
People… What is this world coming to?
Bravo! I didn’t have time to read all the comments, but don’t let the idiots get you down. Somebody’s got to stand up for our rights, and especially the right not to be pushed around by petty authorities. Both of those guys work for us, and don’t you forget it.
If you end up having to start a legal fund, don’t hesitate to drop me a line at the address I gave when leaving this comment.
Sorry for the double-post, but what is with this random number and letter set I have to put in before I can post here? You’re saying if I don’t put that number in I can’t post in your comments? I’m paying for my Internet connection, I navigated to your website, you don’t believe that I’m not an auto-spammer? I’m sorry, but it seems you’re adding to the atmosphere of obedience as much as Circuit City.
You people saying “Oh stop wasting everyone’s time” and so on, are really missing the point.
The point is NOT that CC asked him to show a receipt. The point is that their response to his demurral was not only disproportionate, but illegal. The point is that a cop didn’t know the law, and had to make up something to charge him with. The point is that someone who doesn’t follow made-up “rules” that have nothing to do with the law is treated as a criminal.
Being a consumer shouldn’t amount to a game of Calvinball where the retailer always gets to define the rules, you ignoramuses.
Member clubs like Costco may revoke your membership, but non-member shops can only tell you not to come back. If you really want to test the system, have friends video you while you go through the process. Be sure to inform others they are being video taped.
You are an ass.. Serves you right for trying to be a hero. Any one with maturity and common-sense would have just shown him the receipt and forgotten about it 5 minutes later. Now your siblings are upset and you will probably end up with a record of some kind. When you’re in someones store AKA private property, you have to respect their authority. You certainly won’t be getting any sympathy from me. I hope you learn a big lesson from this.
I think you should have weighed the options you had, before embarking on such a fruitless campaign- is it worth so much time and effort and expense on your part, to prove just to yourself that you possible were right? Or do you think that making your family watch you participate in yet another “stand for freedom”- selfishly taking up their time on your sister’s birthday, causing your father to scrape up the money to bail you out of jail- was more important? I think a smart person would rationalize that yes, showing a receipt for all of 5 seconds to a store manager is a nuisance, but putting yourself and your family through all this isnt worth the hassle.
DP: In Hiibel, the SCOTUS actually explicitly *did not* rule on the issue of whether a state law compelling citizens to show physical ID would be constitutional or not; it only ruled that *state laws* requiring that citizens “identify themselves” were not unconstitutional.
So, yes, “ME” is an idiot, but things are still up in the air as far as the physical ID issue. The SCOTUS made clear that its ruling was not to be used to support physical ID requirement laws, but it didn’t explicitly negate them, either. (Such is the way of the SCOTUS — it likes to issue as narrow an opinion as possible).
However, to my knowledge no states actually have laws that allow their police officers to arrest an individual for not showing physical ID, and the state in question doesn’t have such a statute, so it’s moot. This is a state law issue, and there is no law that says he has to show physical ID, and Hiibel, as you pointed out, clearly shows that the SCOTUS interprets “identify yourself” as being an obligation to do so *verbally*, and not with papers.
Michael — if you need contacts with the legal team that represented Hiibel, I can put you in touch with them.
And, as a personal note, thanks.
Those saying CC has the right to check receipt and bags to prevent thief are bigger idiots than CC.
1st they have detectors at the doors.
2nd what shoplifter would put stolen goods in a bag knowing full well the detector and dude at the door.
3rd paying someone $6 and hr to stand at the door cost more than a stolen cd or dvd.
Being smarter than a cop is never a good thing. Their egos can’t handle it.
Good for you. Lots of comments have been left here saying that you should have just showed them the receipt. No way! That’s a slippery slope I’d rather not go down. You were well within your rights and did nothing illegal. It’s unbelievable to me that there are people who are upset at you for standing up for your rights. If the judge at your hearing isn’t sensible, push it further and further up.
I won’t be shopping at Circuit City again. Stick it to them where it hurts!
Considering one just walks away from the cashier and is getting asked to show what they bought is disrespectful. They are letting one know that they think you are a potential thief and can not be trusted, though they want your money.
You should at least quit buying from stores like this because it is just another act of bad faith. If you sue Circuit City than good for you: they deserve it.
Many sheep think that the insignificant, minor inconveniences should be ignored - that a stand should be taken only for the big issues of civil liberties. Save your fight for something that matters they say. - This advice is like saying “go to the doctor only after your cancer has gotten really really bad.” Standing up for your rights on smaller issues actually helps nudge the system without provoking major violent situations like a federal showdown. I’m a little older now… I remember a different time in America when everyone knew these things.
If you are going to do this to make a point at least prepare so you do it properly.
One, seek the advice of a qualified attorney in your state.
But, since you aren’t driving, it would seem there is no reason to even have a DL on your person.
Also, if had said “My name is ____, my address is __, my dob is ____, then you would seem to have headed off that possible line of questioning at your trial.
Second, ignore all the worms here who would seem to relish groveling under the boot of a police-state.
Not like I shop at Circuit City, but now I will never set foot in that place. My mental check list of what stores NOT to shop in is getting longer.
You did the right thing. Their Loss prevention went too far, for your safety and theirs. My God, we live in such a police state, it’s ridiculous.
::claps::
Please keep us updated. I’m sorry for ALL your trouble, but it was a good thing you did!!
Hmmm - this is great - i love the discussion - something i think is missing a little, is that even if Michael took a wrong step here or there, a point could be argued that even that is his right to do so - nobody like theft, nobody has time to do what he is - but think carefully at what you are saying - i don’t have time to stand up for my rights.
This may be about retail but who hasn’t heard stories along this line, pushing fear, tow the line or we will make it difficult for you - that kind of thinking worked we for the Nazi’s and they had it at all levels, playground to high court. Thank you Michael - win, lose or draw - i am sure it is the inconvenient but right thing to pursue
Sue them all. Now call the media and start the circus.
Did anybody else notice that he wrote “shoplifter” as “shiplifter”?
Good work. Many people would have caved to save the family disruption. Have you set up a legal defense fund?
A Police officer does not need to read you Miranda rights under certain arresting conditions.
The officer not reading you your Miranda rights only means that any conversation that took place between the two of you, or at the station, can’t be used in court.
It doesn’t nullify the arrest like so many people would wish =)
Also, you’re not required by law the carry ANY sort of ID when you’re out and about in public. It is the property of the state, but you’re not required to have it on you unless you’re driving.
Also, just my opinion, Santura the “security” man didn’t seem to do anything wrong. He probably thought you were stealing something, and called for the manager.
The manager was definitely a dick though, and certainly isn’t allowed to keep you from leaving the store.
If some guy put his body between my car and door like that, he’s going for a ride.
[…] rver Upgrade! Re: Arrested at Circuit City Here is my respone to an article written by Michael Amor Righi. […]
See Hiibel v. Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004), reaffirming the right not to provide ID if one provides an accurate pedigree instead.
1) I am always amazed (when reading this kind of article) that so many people have the patience to put up with this sort of thing. I would hope that I do, but I probably don’t and should probably avoid this sort of thing - I’d prolly’ get testy and say something that would really piss off the police officer.
2) I uphold a store’s right to ASK to see my bag and receipt (hey, worth a shot…). I also uphold by right to walk right past them once I’ve paid for my merchandise. Once again, I respect their right to accuse me of theft and call authorities. I suppose they can attempt to detain me, but if I for a moment construe it to be assault, I’ll defend myself and make sure I have witnesses.
3) As for the Police…I think it is a wee bit like talking to strangers in a bar. Sure, you have every right to approach someone and try to strike up a conversation. Of course, they have every right to tell you to buzz off. If you pester them, you may be in trouble. If you, say, grab their arm when they try to walk away from you then you have likely just committed assault. A Police Officer only has the right to detain you if they intend to arrest you and then they must state the charge. Refusing to allow another private citizen to search your property is not illegal.
4) The whole point of this issue, as I see it, is that this country was founded on very profound principles of personal freedom. I’ve been to many countries and in most of them the Police ARE allowed to demand identification and are allowed to search you without much cause. Sure, these rights have been abused many times here in the US, but they ARE rights that we have and YES we must fight for them otherwise we’ll just be weakly *giving* them away to those in power. Why not just toss the Government and revert to a Monarchy then? What the hell? If we don’t care any longer about our very special right to NOT have to prove who we are and what we are doing to any official or clerk who feels like asking then we really don’t deserve these rights.
It’s been a long time since I worked retail… about 15+ years. But I do remember that we could confront a customer who had items stuffed in their bags, baby carriers, etc. as long as they were still in the store. (I personally have no problem with this. Hell, if I had a store, I wouldn’t stand around with my fingers crossed, hoping that my customers would pay for their items.) However, if they made it outside the store, then all we could do was call the police with a description. Granted, we never confronted them unless we saw them hide something. If we just had suspicion, then we called the police to watch them.
I realize this story is a bit different. The whole receipt checking thing is quite the joke, as most of them don’t even look at your items. To me it’s the same thing as fake cameras. The suggestion of extra security cuts down on theft.
As one who complies with all of this corralling, it’s nice to come across a story like this, if for no other reason than to learn the law. Interesting how we automatically assume that we will end up in the slammer if we don’t comply with the authority figure on a mission.
I’ll be interested to hear the outcome, as I fear that the court will not uphold the law that is absolutely in your favor.
This probably won’t help with the actual reason for your arrest, but there is some information about bag searches here that certainly pertains to your situation: http://www.crimedoctor.com/loss_prevention_3.htm
Check the section: Are Door Bag Searches Legal?
How much do you want to bet that the name-calling retards, telling you to just be a good boy and show your receipt, are the same people who drive around with giant pictures of flags and bald eagles on the back windows of their pickup trucks? You know, the ones who spout words like “freedom” and “patriot”? But ironically, they are the ones who cannot tolerate freedom. They gladly submit to authority at every opportunity. They act and think only as they are instructed by their party or their priest. By standing up for your rights as outlined by the law, you are fighting for Freedom. By standing up for your rights as outlined by the Constitution, you are the Patriot. The boneheads who claim those words as their own probably do so to hide their shame for not living by the principles behind the words.
Wow…
I have to say that I am shocked and appalled at how willing people are to simply lie down, give up, and let the government/authority tell them what to do/say/think.
Yes, I am an American, born and raised here and my family has been here for generations. I am truly what you would call an American. I have some questions for those who would dare call themselves American while at the same time saying that “you should comply with our request comrade” Do you dare to actually think and answer?
Do you think that we would have an America if our founding fathers decided that it was easier to just submit to the British rule and just take it on the cheek?
Do you think we would have an America if president Madison decided that the British could board any ship they wanted and kidnap of citizens, arresting them in 1812?
Do you think we would have an America if the north decided that it was easier to let the south have slaves or if they decided to let the south split off from the union?
Do you think we would still have an America if we decided that it was far easier to just let the Japanese bomb us and to do nothing, after all they must of had a good reason?
Do you think that this would still be America, land of the free, if we decided that fighting the Nazis, stopping Hitler, helping to save Europe, and saving all those people in the concentration camps who were being tortured to death was just too hard and besides, why would we want to stand up to authority and fight for our rights anyway?
It’s thinking like this that allowed to major dictators and fascists to take power over the decades. I mean, christ, pick up a damn history book or something. This is high school level knowledge folks. Educate yourself. At this rate America will end up becoming just like Nazi Germany or the USSR or China, or even worse, our own brand of tyranny upon this world. Our founding fathers must be appalled at us for what we have done to their free country, because I know that I am.
It seems you can all stop talking about Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, as that case is only germane if the state has a “Stop and Identify” law. Ohio is no ton the list of states with a “Stop and Identify” law, if that’s true the Hiibel doesn’t apply.
I’m astounded that people are supporting the cops and the store on this. The stuff in your bag belongs to you. What right do they have to “search” you? Where is the boundary in your mind? If they can open your bag, can they open a bag from another store? Can they open your clothing, require you to undress to leave the store? How about body cavities?
I paid, the stuff is mine, want to arrest me, accuse me of a crime, if not let me leave.
I heard Ohio passed a law that requires showing an ID, but that would surely be un-Constitutional. Question is, has the ACLU taken that on yet and if not, why not.
USA is becoming a police state:
http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/PoliceState.html
What is really scary to me is that the idiots who post here (”Just show the receipt. etc…) are probably VOTING. Please for the love of God lets get out the vote in 2008. An informed citizen is a protected citizen.
Way to go Mike!